Extraterrestrial
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 07, 2012, 04:46:53 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: March 9, 2008 is the Grand Opening of our community. Enjoy!
+  Extraterrestrial
|-+  General Forums
| |-+  Religion, Spirituality & Cults
| | |-+  Extraterrestrial life and Bible believers
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Extraterrestrial life and Bible believers  (Read 4397 times)
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« on: May 13, 2009, 06:46:07 PM »

I've read many articles and books and have heard numerous Christian leaders make statements that the Bible gives no indication for the existence of ET life. Many, if not most, Christians do admit that there is a real ufo phenomenon, but it is purely "spiritual" in nature and does not involve physical beings or "nuts and bolts" spacecraft. The popular Christian view is that Satan and his angels and demons "masquerade" or pretend to be aliens for the purpose of deception. The common view is that the ET and ufo phenomenon is "interdimensional" and does not have its origin from within the physical universe. However, there are a few with a Christian perspective who believe differently, but most of them seem to add to the scriptures or make claims that really don't match the scriptural texts. My perspective is somewhere in the middle of these two views.

First, I would like to challenge many of the mainstream beliefs in Christianity that claim that there is no evidence in the Bible for intelligent physical life in the universe, other than our own presence on earth. I believe the Bible makes clear that life in the universe is an actual fact. It will take many posts to present all the scriptural evidence, so I'll present proof within the scriptures bit by bit and leave it up to you to decide the evidence.

The best place to start is at the very beginning of the Scriptures in the book of Genesis. Although I could quote lots of verses and make this very drawn out, I'll try to keep it short and sweet. My first important argument for et life is the need to define the word "heaven," as it is defined in scripture alone. If we make  up our own definitions or have assumptions of what the Bible heaven is, then we'll never get a right understanding of alien life and if it exists according to the Bible. I recommend reading first a King James Version Bible (KJV) and read the first chapter of Genesis. You will immediately notice that the "Heaven and Earth" that God creates is the visible and physical earth, sky and  space. In Genesis Chapter 1 verse 8 God Himself is quoted as saying- "And God called the firmament Heaven."

So, whatever this "firmament" is, is exactly what God calls or defines as "Heaven." If one reads the first three chapters of Genesis and the creation story, "heaven" is not some mystical or unseen spiritual dimension, but is actually the visible air, sky and space. The proof is the almost constant wording in scripture such as "the birds of heaven," "the clouds of heaven," "the stars of heaven", etc.  It is clear in the first few chapters of Genesis that Heaven is the earth's atmosphere as well as the starry space. I challenge any Bible believer to show me anywhere in Scripture that states God created a "heaven" that is an unseen "dimension."

The Hebrew words for heaven in Genesis, both singular and plural, is also used over 400 times in the rest of the Old Testament. If you keep to the Bible definition in Genesis 1:8 of the Hebrew words for heaven, then you won't make the mistake of claiming heaven is in another dimension, unless you "assume" that its definition has changed.

So, my first main point is, stay true to the Biblical definition of heaven given almost immediately in the Bible, and you will notice that when you read any reference to heaven, there is never any scriptural indication that the heaven alluded to exists "outside" or is seperate from the physical universe.    

             
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 07:16:54 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 05:06:13 PM »

Sometimes, most newer Bible translations such as the NIV, use the word "sky" or "air" in place of the word "heaven." This is not a poor or wrong translation. Heaven is the sky and the sky is heaven. Genesis 1:8 in a newer Bible version usually reads... "And God called the expanse 'Sky' "... instead of the KJV- "God called the firmament Heaven." Either translation is correct.

I get a bit frustrated when I hear people debate whether heaven is real. "Imagine there's no Heaven....Above us only Sky..."-John Lennon. According to the scriptures, God placed the birds to fly in "the midst of the firmament of heaven" (Gen 1:20 KJV). He placed "the Sun, moon and stars in the firmament of heaven" (Gen 1:14-15 KJV). Basically, heaven is never defined or revealed in the Bible as some place that is believed in "by faith." If one has literal eyes to see, then just going or looking outside and looking up will prove the Bible heaven is there. The "faith" part is whether those heavens are occupied. 

Some may argue that the Bible speaks of three heavens, for the Apostle Paul wrote of being caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2). It is often stated or argued that this "third heaven," where God's literal throne resides, is a "spiritual dimension," seperate and distinct from the physical universe. Does the Bible actually state this? No.

Most will argue that the Bible says "God is spirit." This is true. So, it is assumed that a spiritual God would NOT dwell in the physical universe, but in another dimension. My question to you who take this view is, is God ONLY a spirit? The Bible also claims God is a "consuming fire" -Deut 4:24. Does that mean He is ONLY a consuming fire? 1 John 1:5 says "God is light". Again, is God limited to being only light? When Scripture states in 1 John 2:4 that "God is love," does that also totally describe His full being? Of course not. God is more than just a spirit.

 The Holy Spirit, according to the New Testament, dwells in every true believer. So, we know the spirit of God is in our "physical dimension/bodies." In the Old Testament, God's Spirit would literally dwell within the "Holy of Holies," which was a special room inside the physical Temple in Jerusalem. To exist as a "spirit" does not automatically place it in a "spirit world." The physical earth and universe IS the spirit world. I don't know of one Bible verse that states that spirits are "interdimensional beings" who pop in and out from a spiritual dimension to the physical one. 

Check the Strong's Concordance for the various definitions for the word Spirit. Spirit is defined as "air," "life," "mind," "wind,""soul," "breath," "ghost." There is no indication in these definitions that require an outside realm for spirits to dwell other than the physical. I have a mind, and life, and a soul, and I breathe air. That makes me a spiritual being, though I live in the material world. "We are spirits in the material world-"Sting/Police

I hear over and over again that God does not have a physical body. I've heard many well meaning preachers state that God does not have arms and legs or any material form. They claim that if a person sees God in the Bible, God is manifesting a likeness in which we can relate and the form or image of God is not a literal material body, but He's more of a non-corporeal "vision." Yet, the Bible I read does show God as a physical being as well as a spiritual being. The proof is real easy to find. I'll post the evidence in my next post.  
 

 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 03:44:37 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 06:01:08 PM »

Here's an example of God appearing physically on earth. These are the very well known stories of Abraham and his wife having a child in their old age, and the Sodom and Gomorrah story found in Genesis 18 and 19. I won't quote it. I'll let anyone who is really interested to check it out and see if what I'm claiming is actually what it says.

To make a long story short, Abraham sees three men standing near his tent. Two of these men end up being heavenly angels. We eventually find out that they are angels as the story progresses. The third "man" is actually the Lord God Himself. Abraham talks face to face to all three of them. Abraham even has a meal prepared for them to eat. If these unearthly "men" are purely spirit beings, I don't think that they'd want any literal or physical food, would you? Well, all three of them actually eat the food. If Abraham thought that they were non-physical beings, there is no suggestion of that in the text at all. He saw them as having real material bodies. This is not a "vision" or a "manifestation" of false physicality. We know this because they ate the food prepared for them. Abraham also has water brought to them to wash their feet, which they also agree to. 

The two angels eventually go to Sodom to remove Abraham's nephew named Lot. The angels go into  Lot's house and recline at the table and eat once again. The Lord God remains behind to talk with Abraham. So, my point is, God and these angels were physically present on earth. They literally walked the ground and ate some food and had their feet washed. In order to do this I would think that they had all, if not most, body parts such as a physical face and physical arms and legs and feet. If these heavenly beings were able to come to earth physically and do the many physical things as described in those chapters, isn't it also possible that they could also do other physical things as well on another physical world just as easily?

There is a warning to Christians in Hebrews 13:2 that they may "entertain angels unaware." How could people entertain angels and not know it? Maybe because the angels appear just as physical and normal as any normal human being appears to be. 

I'll have another example of God appearing physically in the next post. 

   
Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 11:38:34 AM »

A major passage that reveals God in a physical form is found in Genesis 33:12-23. At this point, Moses has communicated with God quite a bit, but only in a limited way. Moses wanted to see God in His full glory and asks God to show Himself in this manner. God agrees to show Himself, except that God would not allow His face to be seen in its full glory.

So God said to Moses in Genesis 33..."I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, The Lord, in your presence....There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in a rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."         

How can people who claim to believe the Bible deny that God has a face and hands and a back after reading this passage? God said He'd use his own hand to cover Moses' eyes and would put His hand down once He passed by, and then Moses could glimpse the back of God.   

Most bible teachers believe that mankind was created in God's image, but limit it only to certain non-physical attributes. But, I believe that God clearly used His own form as a model for the creation of mankind.

During the time of the Exodus of Jews from Egypt, God "descended" to Mount Sinai and was physically present on the mountain. Moses often met with God in a face to face manner.The scriptures frequently uses the term "descended," implying God was up above and came down from the heights of heaven. There's never any mention of God popping into our material realm from some mystical dimension. If you read anytime a heavenly being comes to earth and returns to heaven, the bible usually uses the expression of "descending and ascending." It is clear to me that this is up and down. We all say that  heaven is above and the earth is below, and this is to be understood in a very literal way.

I'd like also to quote another passage that reveals God in a physical form. Exodus 24:9-11 states...
"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against those leaders of Israel; they saw God, and they ate and drank."

Here we have again, the mention of God having feet standing on some form of crystal-like pavement on Mount Sinai. There is a similar scene in the book of Revelation where there is a sea of glass in front of God's throne in heaven. I believe that both "pavements" were literal, both on the earth and in the heavenly scene in Revelation 4:6.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:43:17 AM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 03:12:26 PM »

Next, there is a rather strange account in Genesis 32:22-32. The story is that Jacob was left alone during the night. He then physically wrestled with a man until daybreak. The "man" whom wrestled with Jacob is none other than God Himself. God dislocates Jacob's hip so that Jacob was left with a limp in his walk. Jacob later responds to this event saying in Genesis 32:30 "...I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

In regards to extraterrestrial life, I'm sure most bible readers are familiar with the "Jacob's ladder" dream. This is found in Genesis 28:10-22. Please read this on your own. Jacob has a dream of a ladder (some versions say "stairway") set up on the earth. The top rises up to the sky or heaven. Jacob sees the angels of God "ascending and descending" on the ladder. He also sees God standing at the top of the ladder. I personally believe the ladder is not literal, but symbolic. It symbolizes the fact that heavenly beings routinely go up and down from heaven (space) to earth. Jacob became very afraid because of the dream. Jacob states "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it." He was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven." 

Notice that Jacob was unaware of God or angels coming and going from heaven to earth until he was shown the dream. When it became known that this place (the city of Luz, which Jacob renames Bethel) is a spot in which angels come and go, he became afraid. This is interesting because he already believed in God and angels. But now he had a new realization of their reality and their unseen presence. This is similar to those who believe in extraterrestrial life but have no fear nor any personal experiences as of yet. But, if they should have a vivid dream or an actual experience with them, sudddenly it hits you hard since it has directly involved you in a real way. This is what happened to Jacob. Some believe that if ET life became public, overwhelming fear would take place. Well, I believe that a certain amount of fear would take place, but its intensity would differ with each individual.
Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 06:33:51 PM »

Another argument for physical ET life in the Bible is the amazing story of the prophet Elijah. Check out
2 Kings 2. There you will read how Elijah knew he was going to be taken from the earth and taken up to heaven. If he was to be taken into some non-physical dimension, is a "chariot of fire" really necessary? But if he was to be taken to a physical place in the literal heavens, then a "chariot" or some kind of vehicle was needed, and that's exactly what the Bible said was used to take Elijah.

Elijah was physically taken away by what must have been a flying physical craft. Elijah's coat fell off of him when he was taken. After Elijah was taken, there were a "company of prophets" numbering about 50, who thought and said that maybe God... "set  him down on some mountain or in some valley." They searched for him for three days and couldn't find him. It is easy to conclude that someone must have come in a "chariot" to get and bring Elijah to heaven. This chariot (a Bible word for Vehicle) must have come from heaven. The prophets knew he went "up" in the air and thought he might have been "set down" somewhere on the earth. Whoever flew this chariot, was probably not an earthly being. If his job was to come to earth and get Elijah and put him in the "chariot," I could easily assume that this being (or beings) were physical too. You could even say this was a sort of "alien abduction." A definition for the word "alien" is "outsider." Are not heavenly angels "outsiders?"

This story also reveals that there must be real "nuts and bolts" space craft. Most Christians deny this and claim that all ufo's are satanic and are non-physical and spiritual manifestations. But this story proves not all craft that come from the skies above are of satan. It proves also that there is a real physical presence in some of the ufo phenomenon.

Imagine if we were alive when this incident took place. What if we were unaware of what was to take place and actually witnessed this "chariot" appearing and witnessed a man being taking away by it? Sounds very similar to some of the ufo stories doesn't it? 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 06:35:51 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 04:23:18 PM »

More evidence for extraterrestrial life in Scripture is the resurrection, ascension and the second coming of Christ.

The Bible clearly states that after Christ's resurrection, he appeared physically to many people. Doubting Thomas wouldn't believe that Christ rose from the dead unless he could physically touch Jesus and feel the wounds he suffered on the cross. When Jesus appeared to the disciples miraculously in a locked room, they thought they saw a "ghost." But Jesus said that "a ghost has not flesh and bone, as you see I have" Luke 24:39.  Jesus also ate food with his disciples more than once after the resurrection.

When we get to where Christ "ascended into heaven," he was still a real flesh and bone person. He went "up" and the disciples watched him go up. An angel even stated that "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven" Acts 1:11. If Jesus ascended physically up into the sky (heaven), is there any indication that he is no longer a physical being? I think not. If he is said to come back in like manner, then we know he will be physical when he returns as well. If he was going to some unseen "spiritual dimension," why go "up" into the air at all? He should have just vanished where he was standing.

What about Jesus now? Ephesians 4:10 states that "He...is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe." Another translation says he ascended into the heavens in order to "fill all things" or to "fill all creation." What universe or things or creation is the Bible talking about that Jesus inhabits and ascended through? Is it some unseen or unprovable "dimension?" It seems plain to me that Scripture is referring to the known physical universe. 

At the second coming of Christ, there are a large amount of verses that speak of a physical return that literally wipes out the armies of the world that are converging on Israel. There are even verses that speak of Christ's robe being stained with blood (Rev. 19:13 and Isaiah 63:1-4). Can anyone point to a scripture that states Jesus became non-physical at His ascension to heaven and then returns to a physical state at his return? I see no evidence for that at all.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 05:49:31 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 06:02:06 PM »

Now, this post may be the most controversial post on extraterrestrial life and I know many Christians will totally disagree with me. I think many just find this to be too hard to believe. I try to keep the Bible quotes to a minimum, but I think it is best to have them here for this post.

Genesis 6 (King James Version)

Genesis 6

 1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

 2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


JUDE 6

 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


The controversy is....who are these "sons of God" in Genesis 6 and who are these Giants (or Nephilim) who are the offspring that were "mighty men of old and men of renown?"

I believe that the sons of God were wicked angels. They saw and lusted for the "daughters of men." They had sexual relations with the earthly women and produced great and fearful offspring. As is stated in Genesis, this happened before and after the flood. This is how many of the Pagan religions received their beliefs. The people of earth believed these angels to be deities/gods from the heavens and their offspring were demi-gods.

Those Bible believers who do not take this interpretation usually interpret this as simply the "godly" earthly line of Seth (sons of God) married into the "ungodly" earthly line of Cain (daughters of men). The union of the godly male line with the ungodly female line of Cain produced this wicked offspring of giants/Nephilim. I find this interpretation to be rather poor and faulty. The problem with this thinking is claiming that there are two earthly lines of godly and ungodly people that at one time were seperated, and then decided to intermarry. First of all, obviously, the so-called godly line of Seth were not godly if they were lusting after the females of the line of Cain. God was destroying everyone except Noah and his family at this time. So, Biblically, it is obvious that there are no "godly" line of people. Plus, just because someone can trace their ancestry back to a godly forefather (Seth) does not make one a godly person. There is no such thing in the Bible as a "godly line" of people. Everyone is unique and being part of a certain "group" of descent does not make one automatically a "son of God."

In the Bible sense, to be a son of God is to be directly created by God, and thus Adam and Eve were sons of God. Their offspring were not directly created by God and thus are not automatically considered sons of God. Those earthly people who are considered to be sons of God are those who have been "adopted" into the family of God by faith and are "born again" or "born of God" spiritually. All heavenly angels were direct creations of God. Therefore all heavenly angels are sons of God, even if they become evil.

Jude stated that there were certain angels which "kept not their first estate and left their own habitation." Here we have something amazing. Angels left or abandoned their own place in the heavens to come to earth. Why? Because they were attracted to the women of earth and wanted sexual relations with them. If you read the whole of Jude, it is speaking about people of the earth, as well as evil angels, who give themselves over to sinful practices. The angels, left their heavenly abode to fornicate with the women of earth. This produced the Nephilim or giants. These were half angelic and half human offspring. Today we would call them human/alien hybrids. If you do a search on the net for giants and nephilim, you'll be amazed at the archaeological evidence for these enormous people. 

To me, this is proof that these heavenly angels were physical and capable of procreation. The angels responsible for this were not "cast out" of heaven by God or by righteous angels. They came to earth on their own accord. The Bible stated that these angels were eventually cast into "prison." But it seems that other angels from time to time continue to do this and are responsible for the other giants that came later.

I'll get into more of this in the next post.  
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 04:21:30 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 06:08:22 PM »

I have a couple of questions to any Bible believer who believes that the Nephilim/Giants are normal human offspring, created by the line of Seth and Cain uniting. How do you explain the physical differences from the average human being? The Bible describes the Giants as having 6 fingers and 6 toes on each hand and foot. The giants were at least 8 to 12 feet tall. If a "normal" human being from one line marries another "normal" human being from another line, why the massive change physically?

And why is it stated that only the males took wives of whoever they wanted to and not vice versa? Why weren't the male line of Cain interested in the female line of Seth? And why would the Bible say the sons of God came in unto the "daughters of MEN?" Who else would earthly men be having sex with, but with female human beings called "daughters of men?" The fact that the Bible says they saw the "Daughters of Men" and that "they were fair" suggests that it's not speaking about human men suddenly discovering human females. This proves to me that the sons of God in Genesis is not speaking of male human beings having sex with more female human beings, but angelic beings who were unnaturally having relations with the "daughters of men."  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 04:06:52 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 12:48:47 PM »

I'd like to mention my point of view on the "invisible." I mentioned before that many bible believers tend to think of angels and demonic beings as dwelling in invisible dimensions apart from the material realm. I also used to think this way. But, I came to realize how our universe and earth is full of invisible things. So much exists that we have only learned about in more modern times. For instance, we now know that there are all sorts of radio waves and sounds that human beings cannot hear or perceive. These sounds are above or below the spectrum that our human ears can detect. The truth is, these sounds are real and exist in our own physical realm. But, unless we use some sort of technology, we wouldn't know it was there. The same is true with light. Our eyes only detect the spectrum for which our eyes have been created. This makes the "invisible light" no less real or less part of our physical realm. We can use the sense of smell as an illustration too. Every creature is limited to their own specific abilities that cannot go above or below their natural function. Sometimes, in the Bible, God allows someone to go beyond what they normally could detect.       

I love thinking about how when I gaze into the blackness of the night sky, the black space is actually full of light from the stars. If we couldn't see the actual stars themselves, the only way to know that light exists in space is for a material object to reflect that light. Otherwise, empty space looks "empty." During the day, I look up into the blue sky and realize that the blue is only so many miles up. Beyond the blue layer of our atmosphere lies the blackness of space as well as billions of stars. But the blue sky masks and hides the fact that there are billions of stars in the blackness of space, in that very same blue sky. I think of the spirit world in a similar manner. Just as we cannot see spirits for the most part, it makes them no less part of our material world. Two definitions for the word spirit is "air" and "breath." Yet, the air is invisible to me, but I know it exists. On a cold day, I can see my breath.

In regards to ufo's, many people assume that if a ufo appears suddenly out of nowhere, it must have come from another dimension. Or if a ufo dissappears while hovering, it went into some other dimension. Not necessarily. The object may have been there before it became visible. And the object that dissappeared may actually still be there.

There's a rather controversial story in the Bible about Balaam and his donkey. In the book of Numbers chapter 2, Balaam was on his way to do something of which God was opposed. There was an angel standing in the gate on the road to block their way. Balaam could not see the angel. BUT, the donkey could! The donkey stopped and refused to move, for what seemed to Balaam, as no apparent reason. Balaam then began to beat the animal. But the angel was literally there the whole time, but only the animal knew it. I'm suggesting that this angel was in no way in another "dimension." The angel was right there on the road and standing in the gate. There's no reason to believe he was in some mystical realm other than the very realm Balaam and his donkey were in. The same could be said of when Elisha saw the armies of God in the mountains that no one else could see (2 Kings 6). In that story, there were chariots ready for war that were invisible to everyone. But, according to the scripture, they were literally "in the mountains."

« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 02:23:15 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2009, 03:16:49 PM »

So, what should a Bible believer think about alien abductions and "nuts and bolts" spacecraft?
I'm convinced that there are many people who may believe alien abductions are happening to them, but in reality, it is a delusion. Maybe some are brainwashed. Or some "abductees" may just be out-right lying. BUT! And this is a big BUT! I strongly believe that some of the stories are genuine.

If you're a Bible believer, ask yourself how Satan had the power to transport Jesus from the wilderness, during Jesus' temptation, to the middle of Jerusalem and placed on top of the temple. Satan had the power to take the Son of God and physically move him from one place in the desert to a completely different location in the city. I'm not saying Satan used a "flying saucer," but what I'm saying is that it is possible for satanic beings to take a physical person and move them from one place to another. If Satan so had the ability to physically take and move Jesus around, could it not also be done with other human beings? If Genesis 6 claims angels were able to take women and have sexual relations with them, does this not also prove that there is a physical reality with some satanic angels? If so, could it be possible that they could create physical things, like spacecraft, as does Man? 

Scripture claims that angels are "higher" than human beings at the present time. I believe that angels are capable of doing anything that Mankind can do and MORE. Mankind has craft that fly in the air and in space. Couldn't an angel have that ability too? Most likely, since the Bible is clear that angels "fly" and come and go to earth all the time. Scripture is clear that dark and evil forces still reside in heavenly locations and that Satan still has the power and ability to go to the highest heavens and to the earth below. He's even called the "prince of the power of the air" - Ephesians 2:2.

The question is, do evil angels use physical craft? Can they make them and use them to do certain things to the things and people of the earth? I believe it is a very real occurence. I'm not claiming that all satanic beings are of this category. I believe that there are demon spirits who are not physical at all. They are disembodied and seek a physical body to possess. They had a body at one time in their past, but those bodies "died." Now, they seek a physical place or body, so that they may find rest. Check out what Jesus said of these spirits in Matthew 12:43-45. But, I also believe that some evil angels still possess a physical form today and they are not all bound here on earth, but have freedom. Many of these beings are responsible for "abductions" and other ufo related phenomenon. As stated in previous posts, righteous angels are also just as much a part of the ufo phenomenon as are the unrighteous ones. From what I hear about these abductions, I can't see how most of this could be of God.

My main point is, Bible believers should keep the possibilty of literal alien abductions as being a real phenomenon. Sure, there may be a lot of exagerations and frauds out there. But a certain percentage may actually be real. Most Bible believers want to keep this topic exclusively in the "spiritual." They find it difficult to accept a real material aspect to this phenomenon. I hope they rethink their position and will  not jump to conclusions about it all being a spiritual deception.               
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 03:18:44 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 04:36:26 PM »

In Ezekiel 28, there is a section that deals with a person called the King of Tyre. Most believe this to be referring to Satan himself. I agree, since it speaks of this "person" as being "in Eden, the garden of God." I mention this because I find this to be further proof that there is a physical element to Satan revealed in the Bible. Many who believe the Garden of Eden story believe Satan appeared as a literal "serpent." I do not believe this anymore than I think Satan appears as a literal "great red dragon with 7 heads" in the book of Revelation. This is all symbolic. I believe Satan appeared as a beautiful looking angel in Eden as described in Ezekiel 28 and he is described as being covered in precious jewels. I'm not sure how a "snake" could wear jewelry. Anyway, my point is, Satan is described as having some physical form that wears physical jewels. So a Bible believer should keep this in mind when thinking about fallen angels and the ufo phenomenon.

I'd like also to mention something that many Christian teachers commonly state to back up their claims that the ufo phenomenon is only spiritual in nature. They love to quote a man named Jacques Vallee. He has published many well written books on the ufo issue. He is a scientist of some sort and he is well known among those who study ufos. I've read one of his books, and it seemed well thought out and seemed to be an honest look into the topic of ufos. He has made many statements that he believes there may be an "extra-dimension" to the ufo phenomenon. He believes the ufo phenomenon is likely to be more complex than just  aliens from other planets flying in spacecraft to earth. So many Christians love to use this mans work for evidence that we may not be dealing with literal extraterrestrial craft, but more like spiritual manifestations from other dimensions. But, what most Christians do not know about Vallee is he was a close friend and associate of the now deceased Anton LaVey, who founded the Church of Satan. There are photos of the two together that could easily be found on the web if anyone cares to check that out. So if Christians want to use Vallee's work to back up their "christian" claims, it may be wise to let others know that he was once close with Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan.  
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:46:58 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2009, 07:29:57 PM »

So, what does the future hold for us in regards to extraterrestrial life acccording to my understanding of scripture? I think it will be mind blowing. I personally think many Bible believers will be shook up and many could lose their faith over what will happen. This shouldn't be. I think if we have a better understanding of the nature of the angelic realm, we won't be surprised or perplexed at what is coming. 

What exactly should we expect? This is fascinating to me, because the New Age Movement and non-christian religions are preparing their people for an outward revelation on a grand scale of the existence of extraterrestrial life. Christians should be preparing themselves too. What many in the pagan and New Age circles are claiming, will actually seem to come to pass, in my opinion. Even the "experiencers," "contactees" or "abductees" are claiming similar things. The main thing we should take seriously, is that there will come a day when it will apear that the earth will be destroyed. This may be caused by war, terrorism, natural calamities and chaos of other sorts. Most know that it is a common theme in the ufo phenomenon that the ETs keep alluding to troubles on the earth and that they won't allow total destruction of the planet. Most people who have studied eschatology or the prophetic scriptures believe that there is coming a crisis which would seem to be the ultimate situation. Either we will perish, or we will be saved by a power so amazing, it will appear to be miraculous. This is what we should be expecting in the near future. How near? I don't pretend to know. Many prophecy teachers claim that the next great event on the prophetic calender is the "rapture" of the church. I believe that that belief is a major mistake. I believe the rapture is a real event, but I'm not expecting it as the next major event. Other things must come first, such as a "great falling away" and a "strong delusion." Without writing a book on this website, I prefer to keep it short and sweet. I won't be able to quote all the verses I'd like, but I hope to eventually get the verses out there for people to check on their own.

I believe that a world crisis (not "the tribulation," but a world crisis) will bring about the revelation that there are real forces in the sky that will save the world from destruction. This will be the way the ETs (Satan's angels) finally come out into the open. It also makes perfect sense to do it this way. Satan's plan to control this world is to bring the world to its knees. When it looks hopeless and people are crying out for "divine intervention", Satan's man and his angelic followers will come with "all power, signs and lying wonders" and will bring "peace and safety" and eventually great prosperity to the world. Many Bible believers will be expecting the Rapture during the crisis, but it won't happen.....yet. Instead, a strong delusion and return to the old pagan beliefs will result. Christianity will take a major hit and many will fall away from the faith.

After these events, the world will believe and know that we are not alone in the universe. Mankind will be "gifted" with all sorts of technology, endless energy supplies and knowledge that will cause the world to believe that we have entered the Golden Age. Once the knowledge of extraterrestrial life is accepted by the entire world, the "rapture" will not be such a shock to the world when it finally occurs. We may even have Star Trek-like technology during this time, such as "beam me up Scotty" abilities, so that the Rapture may not be so earth shattering when it happens as it would be if it were to happen today.

 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 07:33:32 PM by Seb » Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 04:49:23 PM »

As most know, the book of Revelation is loaded with symbols which can be very difficult to interpret. There are probably a million different opinions by Bible believers on just how to go about interpreting it all. One such chapter that has so many various interpretations is Revelation chapter 12. One christian writer has given his understanding of Ch.12 that has me quite intrigued. Of all the hundreds of interpretations I've seen, I find Arthur Bloomfield's interpretation to have the most biblical weight behind it. His view of that chapter is probably the key to understanding a major coming event that is truly cosmic.

I've mentioned the christian belief called the "Rapture" in the previous post. The word Rapture is not in the Bible, but it expresses a Bible truth. Christianity is based on the resurrection of the dead. The Apostle Paul states that if Christ has not been raised, then their preaching and their faith is useless and futile (1 Corinthians 15). So, christians must accept that Christ rose from the dead and that someday, there will be a general resurrection of the dead as well. We call the future resurrection of the dead and their "catching up" to Christ in the air as "the Rapture."

I believe Bloomfield's interpretation, which is, that Rev. 12 is a picture of the future Rapture. This event comes during a time when the "Beast" (a.k.a. the Antichrist) is reigning on the earth and Satan and all his angels are brought from the heavenly realms (space) to the earth to prevent the Rapture from happening. Since Christianity is based on the resurrection, and believers are promised a new immortal body at their resurrection, it makes sense that Satan would do everything in his power to prevent the resurrection and their ascension. The result, according to Rev. 12, is an all-out war among the angels in the heavens. This could easily be labeled as genuine "star wars." The Bible states that Satan intends to set up his kingdom on earth. God also intends to set up His kingdom on earth. Eventually that leads to a literal battle for the earth by all the angelic beings in the universe. People wonder why alien beings would be concerned about us here on this little planet. According to Scripture, the answer is easy. The 2 great forces in the universe have plans to set up their own eternal kingdom here. Satan intends to be God of the earth, and so does God Himself. Eventually this comes to a head.

Bloomfield teaches that the pregnant "Woman" in chapter 12 represents the Church just prior to the rapture. The manchild is a part of the church which is eventually "caught up to God and to His throne" (raptured). Satan is seen causing all his angels in the heavens to come to the earth in order to "devour the manchild as soon as it is born." Satan is attempting to prevent the resurrection and the church's ascension to the heavenly realms. Knowing there is a powerful enemy that will try to stop this promise of God, God has Michael the archangel and all the righteous angels prepared to overcome this major obstacle by causing an all-out war on the adversary who is set on "devouring" the "child." The Bible states that Satan and his angels are not strong enough and they are cast out of heaven and down to the earth. Many have placed this war in the ancient past. I think it is still future and when it happens, there will be no doubt about it! This war will be witnessed and felt by the inhabitants of the earth. When Jesus spoke in Luke 10:18 that he "saw Satan fall like lightning to the earth," he was speaking prophetically. Mankind will see this as well. There will be an influx of alien beings, both seen and unseen, onto this planet following this war, which was brought on by the Rapture. Will this war involve literal spacecraft? Probably!

I recommend any student of prophecy who has never read Arthur Bloomfield's books, to get all his books  that you can. He may not be correct on everything (I mean, who is?), but I find his methods of interpretation to be the best I've ever come across. He understood the connection between ufos and the angelic realm.
Logged
Seb
Newbie
*
Posts: 23


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 05:07:14 PM »

According to Bloomfield's interpretation of prophetic events, we are to expect a build-up to a world crisis. This crisis will reach a climax that will cause the extraterrestrial (angelic) forces to make themselves publically known, outwardly using what appears to be supernatural power. There will be a certain man (antichrist) who will have literal "connections" with these forces and will appear to have supernatural power from the heavens. He will be considered a "saviour" of the world. This will cause the inhabitants of the earth to finally accept once and for all that we are not alone in the universe. Peace will come to the earth as well as great prosperity, which will cause a "strong delusion" and many will forsake their Christian beliefs for those of Satan's. Many of those who remain in some sort of Christian denomination will become "lukewarm" and will not be very effective as a church. It is during this time of prosperity and relative "peace and safety" that the "Rapture" will occur.

I sincerely believe that as a result of the rapture there will be proof that ufo crashes can be a real occurance. Romans 8 claims that "All creation groans in its bondage to decay." In the angelic regions of space, they too have to deal with nature that is in a fallen state. "All creation" is currently under this curse. Both heaven and earth. This means that even the heavens occupied by righteous or unrighteous angels have problems of decay. It also means that angelic warfare can cause physical damage to each other's weapons or any physical thing or instrument. I'm expecting that there will be a real physical fight among the angels at the time of the rapture that will result in a huge number of "ufo crashes." I know this sounds ridiculous to many, but I think we should really consider this seriously. I used to scoff at anyone who suggested that "spacecraft" would be used to take believers up in the rapture. I thought that that was just plain silly. But, now I really believe that real physical craft will be a part of it in a big way.        
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC

Leprekon Labs